HEY EVERYBODY, JP'S COMMENT IS WORTH BRINGING TO THE TOP OF THE PILE. I HOPE YOU ALL REPLY AND COMMENT AND THINK ON ALL THIS STUFF A LOT...
John said...
totally. here's the thing with praying in tongues: i simply CANNOT find any place in the bible that describes EVERYONE as having it! in fact, i find quite the opposite: paul says everyone is definitely NOT supposed to have it, or else we would be puffed up with pride, not depend on anyone (let alone JESUS!), and on top of it all look really goofy to the world. this past week it was argued that when paul gives his little set of rhetorical questions about spiritual gifts, what he MEANS is that tongues shouldn't be used by everyone in the public sphere...right...so then why didn't paul just SAY that? he very specifically describes public worship in other places; if that's what he meant, don't you think he would have SAID that?
gifts are meant to build up, to love, to serve. they are used to help those in need (ironically that's ALL of us!) and often unconsciously they help the individual. how? they show us that no one person has ALL the gifts, no one really can do it on his/her own. i've seen this really clearly in my life lately. it's neither healthy to pretend like we've got every spiritual gift, nor to pretend like we don't have any. God simply doesn't judge the way we do...(there's hope for me yet!!) we judge in terms of the result, the bottom line; he judges the heart. that's how thieves, whores, and swindlers always seemed to catch the eye of Jesus...and the self-righteous always caught the sharp edge of his tongue.
yeah man, let's use ALL our gifts, small or great, flashy or modest, to build up the body. let's encourage one another to lay down our pride or fear and let God use the individual HE made; not the one we think we're supposed to be or the one the world says we should be. embrace diversity...rejoice in the wide spectrum of color, talent, and creativity the Lord has used in his creation, especially his children. keep in mind...lew mentioned (paul did first) only using our gifts to BUILD UP. who? the body. not our own egos (that's hittin me now) or our own pride. my gifts aren't meant for me. they're meant for you. and it goes full circle. i go last, you go in front of me, and Jesus is at the head. let's go there.
10:01 AM
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tongues, tongues...tongues..
ReplyDeletemaybe this will be a thing we will discuss for a long time...i look forward to it.
ReplyDeletei want to apologize. on my last comment i did say some stuff out of line. i made some very conclusive statements about what paul did or did not say about tongues, when in reality they are my interpretation of what he is saying. i'm sorry if anyone was offended or really hurt by it.
i do believe this kind of gift is great and is definitely worth desiring. perhaps i said some things out of my own insecurities or pain...and i was trying to respond to a feeling i've seen in many churches that tongues is a merit badge or a right of passage, rather than a beautiful gift to explore.
it really does come down to the cross and loving God and his people. gifts are meant to help us with that.
I love that we're having a real conversation about this... it's so much more than going to a meeting every week, hearing someone talk, going home, then talking about them and what they said...
ReplyDeletePeople are reading more scripture! People are talking to each other... People are thinking more deeply! I hope we're all praying more deeply, too...
We're being forced to actually deal with each other! Not just form individual opinions, but learning others' points of view...
JP, thanks for writing. I think your statements represent a lot of what people are hearing. It's good for us. thanks, bro...
and i hope we don't discuss it for long, although if we do, it'd better be while living a life of love in this 'hood...
ReplyDeletethe statement that " I cannot find any place in the Bible that describes everyone as having it" , This statement is correct .However, The bible would not tell the truth if it said otherwise , because, the statement is a welknown fact ! So therefore it is nonsense to look in the bible for a statement that would tell you the opposite But JP seems to make this a take of on to an erroneous statement, which follows, Quote:
ReplyDelete" I find quite the opposite; EVERY ONE IS DEFINITELY NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE IT"
I , Johannes Weiss , streneously object to this misleading statement. And I believe that it is very displeasing to our Lord.
Because JP is speaking here about the Bible, God's word and He tries to give the impression that God put this statement in His word. This is entirely untru.! The opposite is true . Verse 5 of 1 Cor. 14 says" I would you all spake with tongues , but rather that your prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. "
From this I DEDUCT THAT GOD PUT SPEAKING WITH TONGUES AT THE SAME LEVEL OF IMPORTANCE AS PROPHESYING WHEN IT IS FOLLOWED WITH AN INTERPRETATION . And in no way diminishes the value of tongues by this.
When the question is asked" Do all speak with tongues ? " [1 Cor 12:30}
The obvious answer is no. But this is because He is speaking here about the tongues wich is used as a message with interpretation. Because the sentence continues " Do all interpret" ? The Lord told me that the misunderstanding of this verse is caused by a lack of discernment of which kind of tongues Paul is speaking about when he mention this. . Did you realize that the gift of tongues is listed as diverse ? that means that there are different kinds, And from God's Word we easily can discern already 3 kinds. ;
A. the tonques translating differente Foreighn languages
B. the tongues as a prophetic message , followed by an interpretation.
C. The tongues as used for prayer and singing,[ for all believers ]
If you like a complete Godly teaching on the subject of tongues , please look up my blogspot; johannesweiss.blogspot.com